Sunday, 26 June 2011

A question for the blokes

    I have never heard of any explosions within the FtM community, of transsexual versus transgender. Y'know, the nival calligraphers versus the stick-on-beard part-timers about who uses which loo, that kind of thing.
    It's probably saying the Great Unsayable, but could it just be that the blokes are, y'know, just a little more sensible about that kind of thing? 


  1. With all due respect, Jenny, That is brainless BS and you know, IMHO...ONLY>

  2. Please note the 'laugh damnit' tag, I promise you and any other readers that this post was written firmly tongue-in-cheek.

  3. The reason you don't hear from them on this, and loo issues is because it's much easier for FtMs to pass. And also because biological women are not typically associated with being "predators," and therefore they're free from being accused of being pedophiles, weirdos, that sort of thing.

    Basically, they don't have to worry about it, so they don't.

    It's all about "passing," unfortunately. Nothing else. All the other things are merely red herrings.

  4. 'tis true, if only I could be as happy with a beard and a deep voice.

    I suspect that were you to ask him an FtM bloke would tell you that they have plenty to worry about though. Genetic blokes might not always be understanding in their direction.

  5. I thought it cute. Sardonic and cute. ... I've never considered if those two words could go together!


  6. It's cos MtFs have been socialised as male and so have learned to be argumentative and divisive, and FtMs have been socialised as female and therefore are good at co-operating and nurturing bonds and stuff.


    Cat, pigeons. Pigeons, cat.

  7. There are plenty of other blow-ups about definitions and terminology, though! I think the transgender/transsexual thing might have less of a history with trans guys because (a) there is less written history about trans guys, so we don't know about it and (b) 'transsexual' has usually/often in the past been associated with 'having surgery' - and bottom surgery for trans guys has traditionally been less available (geographically, fewer surgeons), less financially accessible (due to our lower incomes as 'women' before transition) and considered less 'successful' (I'm not saying that this is the case for everyone, but that's what we've traditionally been led to believe). I'm sure there are other reasons, too.

    I know that the group I became part of when I 'came out' was mainly (but not exclusively) trans guys, and one of the values was diversity and acknowledgement of everyone's identifications - we don't all use the same words for ourselves and our bodies, and nor should we have to. That might be in part due to the politically inclined background of group members, but it also arose in response to the extremely rigid definitions of the major trans-related 'health' service in the city (and its 'support' group, which would kick you out if you weren't considered a 'true transsexual' by the psychiatrists).

  8. I think Nix nailed it. Surgery.

    Since bottom surgery is less common, it's not attained some mythic, defining status. Meanwhile in the MtF community, there's a subset of the "haves" who very definitely look disparagingly upon the "have nots" (and the "won'ts"). The fixation on the surgery others have or don't have is something that still baffles me.

    There also (from my limited perspective) seems to be a bit more camaraderie between cis lesbians and trans men than there is between cis gays and trans women. I think some of that likely comes from historic feminist associations, and a distinct defeminizing sentiment among many feminists and many lesbians. Meanwhile, I know plenty of trans women who find drag queens to be outright offensive on the order of minstrel shows.

    There's also the crossdressing phenomenon which is almost exclusively male just because our society seems perfectly accepting of women in masculine attire in almost any context. I know some CD's make trans women in particular uncomfortable in the creeper sense, but that certainly can't be said about all crossdressers.

    My feeling on it is that we're all being tarred with the same "deviant" label by those against us, so why fight amongst ourselves? And for fuck's sake, enough with the legitimacy judgments people.

  9. Morning all, sorry it's taken me a day or two to return to these comments.

    @Carolyn Ann: Oh dear, cute. I am obviously losing my edge.

    @Dru: Now you're just being naughty. Did make me laugh though.

    @Nix, @LifeInNeon: I could not have hoped for a better serious response to this post from either perspective.

    I'm aware that trans guys are the target of hate from the same man-hating arm of the lesbian world that hate trans women. Some charming websites out there.

    From a personal perspective I find the genital obsession to be unhelpful to someone in my position. Either hearing it from all sides, or acquiring it myself.

  10. Well, I thought it was funny...